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CynoJammer: What exactly is the issue?

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Sentinel Eeex Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 18:20:00 - [1] Originally by: smitor if you look beyond the tags under every name and just focus on the actual situation you will have the core problem with jammers, pos, deathstars and supercaps right at hand. There is a balance issue when it comes to investing isk. A Defender who invested huge amounts of isk into a) getting a system sov up by placing and mainting pos b) dropping atleast 250-400 bln isk in 4 well fit titans (bpos included) c) dropping another 200-300 bln isk in 10 well fit motherships (bpos included) d) invested a few billion isk in pos fuel e) invested in a station 22 bln isk f) invested in a fleet of 50 dreads and 50 carriers billing total 200 bln isk ? is able to defend with about 200 active ppl a region from 600 ppl trying to disable the cyno jammer flying t2 fitted battleships/logistics. Attacker who... a) wants to attack sov system b) dropped at least >500 bln ISK in X well fit Titans (BPOs included) c) dropped another 400-500 bln into 20 well fit motherships (BPOs included) d) invested a few billion ISK in isotopes to get into defender's systems (and let's add fuel for POSes that attackers are running now) e) didn't invest anything in station, because they want to take it (investing in station gives you ****all advantage in defending - POSes and ships do) f) invested in fleet of 100 dreads and 100 carriers billing total of gazillion ISK ...isn't able to actually attack a system, because defender can jumpbridge his whole capital fleet through jumpbridge modules that magically bring capitals (that require a cyno field to jump to) into a system with cynojammer (which prevents cyno fields from being generated). I can imagine a logistics nightmare ("Hey guys, where do we keep Liquid Ozone? Ah, thanks.") involved in jumping capital fleet from J-L to F-T via jumpbridge, for example. Must be horrible.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 18:39:00 - [2] Originally by: Athena Attom If you dont prepare and do the same old attack sure its going to get beaten. Your numbers are down because cyno jammer attacks result in your fleet being slaughtered because you wolnt open the box and RR BS's are your only counter, attack the jammer off peak hours, attack it with such a force its down in 5 minutes. "Guys, let's gather a big fleet and take out their cynojammer - but noone can know about it, sssshhhhhhh!" We tried it few times. But noone showed up. Go figure.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 18:45:00 - [3] Originally by: Athena Attom Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Athena Attom If you dont prepare and do the same old attack sure its going to get beaten. Your numbers are down because cyno jammer attacks result in your fleet being slaughtered because you wolnt open the box and RR BS's are your only counter, attack the jammer off peak hours, attack it with such a force its down in 5 minutes. "Guys, let's gather a big fleet and take out their cynojammer - but noone can know about it, sssshhhhhhh!" We tried it few times. But noone showed up. Go figure. Ummm you took down NOL- jammer by pretending to go for the J-L one then burning to pr- why not try the same thing? Your tactical brilliance leads me to beleive that you are, in fact, Yaay himself
Sentinel Eeex Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:40:00 - [4] Originally by: Athena Attom Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Athena Attom Ummm you took down NOL- jammer by pretending to go for the J-L one then burning to pr- why not try the same thing? Your tactical brilliance leads me to beleive that you are, in fact, Yaay himself Please thats a pretty low blow. I am mearly pointing out that you have used several tactics to take down the jammer before we can even react there is nothing new its just your pilots dont want to log in and do it. Not the game mechanics itself, its your failings. Fair enough, I apologize and retract my statement (noone can be as bad as Yaay ). What I was trying to say is that you were pointing the obvious.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 15:16:00 - [5] Originally by: paracidic You guys whine about titans and get them changed. Then you start taking space at a record rate because you POS spam the hell out of every conquerable station system, You make wild proclamations on eve-o about how everyone sucks but you. You push your nemisis back into a handfull of systems which are heavily defended. You force the BoB Titans to work in close proximity of each other and you find that you cannot POS spam anymore so you immediately run to the GMs and demand changes that will again allow you to POS spam. CCP foced me to taste my own bile the first time they cowered to your group of crybabies. I hope they have the gonads not to cower again. KiaTolon, you really are the biggest crybaby I ever saw. Just keep whipping your (players) and keep them dieing under BoB's guns sooner or later you will manage to kill a heavily defended cynojammer. Or why not threadnaught about how you should be able to OOG play tic tac toe for station systems. But please keep in mind that as BoB reverses the trend and start dissassembling your empire you won't see whine threads about anything. We will simply find a way to beat you. You had better pray that your sov 4 systems can continue to be protected by cynojammers. Calm down. Relist some Tritanium in K-9 and relax.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 15:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Moonlight Express Imagine what would happen if CCP did not make any changes to allow goons to win? The question is not æifÆ cyno jammer nerf is coming, itÆs æhow fast can it be put in the game, so that goons donÆt blackmail CCP to submission once againÆ. IÆm sure it will be sooner rather then later. If itÆs not in the next patch, there will be hell to pay, CCP. CCP is not nerfing fast enough. Canceling account now...
Sentinel Eeex Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 16:19:00 - [7] Originally by: smitor no it should not require "dreadnought 5" or some other hillarious skilling scheme and neither should it cost as much as a dread. Afterall we are talking about a SUBcaptialship. Both factors would limit the accessability and reduce the chance someone actually fields them to the point where we would be in the same situation as we are now with stealthbombers and triage mods. These newish ships would need to replace battleships on a borad scale for the specialized job of a jammer or pos takedown and in that context they would need to be available to all alliances and a broad base of pilots. What the ...? You're ignoring main issues with cynojammers. 1. Jumpbridges work for capital ships even when cynojammer is active in a system 2. Cynojammer doesn't use any CPU, but cyno generators (either ship module or POS module) do use CPU. So, cynojammers work when POS is in reinforced. 3. Cynojammer can be killed + reanchored/onlined easily, at another POS 4. Cynojammer has insane amount of armor HP 5. Cynojammer can be anchored/onlined on a fully armed deathstar. Fitting requirements are silly. 6. I'm sure there is more, can't think of it atm Changing even one of those would make the game more intense, and would bring risk vs reward back. At the moment, there is no reward for an attacker. There is no penalty for a defender. "Let's jump capitals in, before they kill+reanchor it" situation that we have at the moment is not a reward. Especially not for those who can't play game when cynojammer is being killed. Reward for attacker should be that cynojammer can not be repaired/recnahored/reonlined if underlying POS is in reinforced. Cynojammer should not be targetable (to kill it or rep it) until POS is back to 50% shields. This same award for attacker will be a penalty for defender, if they don't manage to defend POS. Cynojammer should still be reanchorable if POS is not in reinforced and jammer is at full health. This way, attacker would have to make sure they can incap cynojammer and reinforce POS. And then, defender might need to set short stront timer, in order to get POS back asap, so cynojammer can go back up again. I mean, even changing jumpbridge behaviour would already make it more intense. Preventing capital ships from using jumpbridges into cynojammed systems would be a good start. That would allow one side to at least attack cynojammer somewhere else. As opposed to going to attack 2nd cynojammer, and then having the same capital fleet from 1st one waiting for you there already. Introducing new ship class won't change a thing. I mean, there are tons of good ideas about this already, new ships are just silly.

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